trade deadline talk

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Re: trade deadline talk

Postby Pitou on Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:25 am

Thanks EV. I was being sarcastic and I understood the point you were trying to make. My point is, what was Degray trying to accomplish and when? January is not the time for a "plan"', because if there was a plan for goaltending before that, it can certainly be categorized as a flea market gamble solution.

You couldn't tune into an Owen Sound game, home or away without hearing a comment about the Attack's goaltending situation. Widely recognized across the league by anyone who even casually follows the league.No disrespect to Guzda, he's a rookie and hopefully our next franchise starter. I like his potential.

The Attack goaltending was hovering somewhere around the 30th rank of save percentage before you arrived at ANY Attack goalie on the list. DD goes out and grabs a bargain basement "solutIon" in OA Bowman. Firstly taking up an o
OA spot for a goalie with modest career numbers. Left me thinking that certainly something is in the works behind the scenes.

The Attack woes continued. How deflating is it to outplay and out shoot your opponent most nights (sometimes almost by 2-1 margin) and lose after allowing 16 total shots.

If it was not obvious that goaltending was by far priority #1, I don't know what else had to happen. So solution #2 is Lafreniere. To his credit he has not been bad in his small sample of games. But he was an expendable spare part on Ottawa, who is last place in their division. Third string on a last place club. 45 total starts in the OHL with an .870 career save %. If Degray is not selling, then I must assume that in his mind this team has a chance. And THAT is your plan?. I know rankings are not scientific but this team started out ranked #2 in the country on paper. Something went terribly wrong. We can point fingers at coaching but the most obvious fixable solution was goaltending.

All along I am thinking Gegray has something in his pocket. This isn't it. Can't wait to see what it is. Never happened. He had no business expending resources, toiling with the likes of McKenzie ( though I like his play) without looking after priority #1. Anything else is futile window dressing IMO.

To add to the kick in the stones, the Attack get rid of Vella and Propp for peanuts, prior to any PLAN, both of whom are at least as good or better than what Dale wasted time and resources on.
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Re: trade deadline talk

Postby cubby01 on Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:52 am

As Watcher stated in another thread, DD must have been banking on McNiven returning. Nothing else makes sense. I agree that Guzda has great potential if he can put this year behind him. Not his fault. He should have been on the bench for most of the games, learning from an veteran OHL goalie.
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Re: trade deadline talk

Postby Pitou on Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:30 pm

cubby01 wrote:As Watcher stated in another thread, DD must have been banking on McNiven returning. Nothing else makes sense. I agree that Guzda has great potential if he can put this year behind him. Not his fault. He should have been on the bench for most of the games, learning from an veteran OHL goalie.

Dale publicly declared weeks ago that "fans need to understand McNiven is not coming back". So he knew that convincingly enough to declare that publicly. When did he know? If not at the beginning of the season, sometime well before the trade deadline. His solution was Lafreniere. I have already laid out why he was a low percentage solution, but he was an attempted solution at low cost and low risk which was obviously the path DD decided to travel. Now the fans and the team have to live with that disappointing choice and just make the best of it. Just don't expect team confidence and outcomes to miraculously change.
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Re: trade deadline talk

Postby CHL Watcher on Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:52 am

Pitou wrote:
cubby01 wrote:As Watcher stated in another thread, DD must have been banking on McNiven returning. Nothing else makes sense. I agree that Guzda has great potential if he can put this year behind him. Not his fault. He should have been on the bench for most of the games, learning from an veteran OHL goalie.

Dale publicly declared weeks ago that "fans need to understand McNiven is not coming back". So he knew that convincingly enough to declare that publicly. When did he know? If not at the beginning of the season, sometime well before the trade deadline. His solution was Lafreniere. I have already laid out why he was a low percentage solution, but he was an attempted solution at low cost and low risk which was obviously the path DD decided to travel. Now the fans and the team have to live with that disappointing choice and just make the best of it. Just don't expect team confidence and outcomes to miraculously change.



Why would he follow that path....and if so....why trade your future away for it? Why fritter everything away?

It's not the least bit smart. Not even close.

Worst crash and burn I have ever seen. Anyone got a better example from this league? I'll be waiting.

19 in 20 hockey people said - Attack win it all. But Dale DeGray just wasn't sure. He needs an assistant on his shoulder.......watching every move he makes for very obvious reasons.

wow....unbelievable.
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Re: trade deadline talk

Postby Pitou on Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:03 am

There is a quote from a respected NHL coach and broadcaster Harry Neale which holds true. It was something like, " Goaltending is 75% of hockey. Unless you don't have it, in which case it's 100%.

Propp did not have career all star pedigree. Granted, neither does Ollie. But with a small sample he was stopping pucks for Barrie at a .923 save percentage when flipped for Lyle. With the goaltending woes the Attack have, did .923 not at least pique interest enough for a test drive to see how that might play out longer term? Propp is flipped for Lyle before he could even strap his pads on for the Bears.

So Propp costs a 2nd, 5th and 7th round picks. Lyle costs Propp plus another pick for good measure. I have no issue with Lyle's play or acquiring him. It 's the misguided priority of the use of resources to get him. There are 20 Brady Lyle's available across the league, if really needed, once you get goaltending squared away. I would have been interested to see a motivated Propp have a chance at a starting position to see what he could do.

That's a lot of picks for Lyle for a team not addressing their #1 need first.
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Re: trade deadline talk

Postby attackisback on Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:25 am

There was a worse “crash and burn” few years before the men cup run. Attack were set in a playoff spot and imploded from January on and missed the playoffs
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Re: trade deadline talk

Postby hllywd99 on Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:21 pm

CHL Watcher wrote:
Pitou wrote:
cubby01 wrote:As Watcher stated in another thread, DD must have been banking on McNiven returning. Nothing else makes sense. I agree that Guzda has great potential if he can put this year behind him. Not his fault. He should have been on the bench for most of the games, learning from an veteran OHL goalie.

Dale publicly declared weeks ago that "fans need to understand McNiven is not coming back". So he knew that convincingly enough to declare that publicly. When did he know? If not at the beginning of the season, sometime well before the trade deadline. His solution was Lafreniere. I have already laid out why he was a low percentage solution, but he was an attempted solution at low cost and low risk which was obviously the path DD decided to travel. Now the fans and the team have to live with that disappointing choice and just make the best of it. Just don't expect team confidence and outcomes to miraculously change.



Why would he follow that path....and if so....why trade your future away for it? Why fritter everything away?

It's not the least bit smart. Not even close.

Worst crash and burn I have ever seen. Anyone got a better example from this league? I'll be waiting.

19 in 20 hockey people said - Attack win it all. But Dale DeGray just wasn't sure. He needs an assistant on his shoulder.......watching every move he makes for very obvious reasons.

wow....unbelievable.


I don't believe that the ownership can stomach this disaster and DD 's tenure will come to an end in April.
........."FRACKEN A BABY! FRACKEN A!".............

......Andrew Shaw @ 11:09 pm 06/24/2013.......

.....TD Gardens in Boston, Mass.....
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Re: trade deadline talk

Postby cubby01 on Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:30 pm

Coach has to go too. 5 goals in 3 games is brutal considering the firepower available. They are making a lot of average goalies look good.
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Re: trade deadline talk

Postby Pitou on Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:31 pm

I don't think they have the parts for that. Maybe I'm wrong. What are we at now? Triple Sheesh! Loss to the Wolves. Puck movement is slow and predicatable. This is a collection of players. Not a team. Plain and simple. Takes me back to the low days of Mike Stothers were the collection of talent did not translate to a team.
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Re: trade deadline talk

Postby stevey on Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:36 pm

attackisback wrote:There was a worse “crash and burn” few years before the men cup run. Attack were set in a playoff spot and imploded from January on and missed the playoffs

If we are thinking the same year our Coach lost the room and whatever happened 2 of our top players wouldn't speak to each other and they had been best friends before. I agree with Harry Neale if you don't have goaltending you have nothing.
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Re: trade deadline talk

Postby Pitou on Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:43 pm

Has Attack management ever fired anyone, or have they just moved on?
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Re: trade deadline talk

Postby CHL Watcher on Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:42 am

Have they ever fired a GM? I don't think they have...but I'm not sure. Moving on seems the norm. Firing is a vindictive way to make things happen anyway. More likely an agreement or other option comes along. Probably best that way anyway.

This season still has the feeling of waiting for the penny to drop....and the deadline is passed. It's just hard to process the fact that this was the plan.
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Re: trade deadline talk

Postby attackisback on Wed Jan 24, 2018 1:22 pm

https://www.therecord.com/sports-story/ ... aying-off/

The OHL 21: Changes paying off
SPORTS Jan 23, 2018 by Josh Brown Waterloo Region Record


KITCHENER — The Ontario Hockey League trade deadline is in the books.

Two weeks have passed and, for some teams, the additions are making a difference.

Sarnia, Kitchener and Hamilton are cruising while others are still waiting for the fresh faces to pay dividends.


We'll look at that as well as other news and notes in this week's edition of the OHL 21.

1. It's advantage Colts six games after Barrie and Sudbury swapped Russians. The Colts are 3-3 since the deal and forward Dmitry Sokolov has a dozen points while the Wolves are 2-4 and Alexey Lipanov has three points.

2. It's times like these that the Erie Otters want to remember the good times — like the four consecutive 50-win seasons and last year's OHL banner. Right now, it's ugly. The Otters last won on the road on Nov. 18. Since then, the team has posted a franchise high 14 consecutive losses away from the Erie Insurance Arena (and gone 4-14-4-2 overall).

3. There isn't much to cheer about in Flint. The Firebirds are the league's worst team and need a miracle to make the playoffs. But the team can take solace in doubling the Soo 4-2 this past weekend. It was only the Soo's second loss in regulation since Oct. 28.

4. There is excitement in Guelph for next season, and for good reason. The west should be up for grabs, goalie Anthony Popovich is showing promise as a top starter and the team will have a nice core of 19-year-old players. But who is going to carry the club on their back offensively?

5. There are rumblings out there that Hamilton Bulldogs standout rookie Arthur Kaliyev may, in fact, not be 16 years old. It's not the first time the age of a Russian born player — though Kaliyev was raised in New York — has been questioned. But surely the OHL would never allow a player into the league without physical proof of age … right?

6. The additions in Kingston were staggering. The Fronts acquired forwards Cliff Pu, Max Jones and Gabriel Vilardi, and blueliners Sean Day and Mitchell Byrne at the deadline and pretty much gave up their future for the next decade to do it. Since then, the club is an underwhelming 2-3-1-0. It's not panic time yet but it wasn't supposed to go like this.


7. London's Liam Foudy was named as an injury replacement for Thursday's CHL Top Prospects game in Guelph. It should have been Kitchener's Riley Damiani. Not because he has more than twice the points (31 to Foudy's 13) but because Damiani, at 17, plays against the opposition's top line every game.

8. The feeling that London will be right back in the mix next season might be premature. The turnaround might be two years away, unless the Knights can lure some of their top prospects north. And they have several playing in the United States National Team Development Program.

9. What do you know? Mississauga is starting to heat up. We've seen this movie before. Last year the team tanked but rallied in the second half and ultimately reached the OHL final. The Fish still have to swim upstream, but back-to-back wins over Barrie and Kingston are a good sign. Both came with Emanuel Vella in net.

10. The Niagara IceDogs are hanging around the top in the east but I still don't think they have the lineup to beat Hamilton or Kingston. But next year? Look out. They'll be buyers, and an elite forward, two imports and a veteran defenceman are on the shopping list. London D Evan Bouchard would be an ideal fit, if the Knights decide to sell.

11. Riddle me this. North Bay trades two of its top players — D Cam Dineen and F Brett McKenzie — and improves. The Troops are 5-1 since the trade deadline, which is tops in the east (Sarnia is 5-0 and Kitchener 5-1 in the west, heading into Tuesday). It's nice to see Christian Propp anchoring the crease after a tough start up north.

12. A change of scenery has benefitted Baden native, and Oshawa Generals prospect, Nathan Torchia. The goalie — and son of former Ranger Mike Torchia — is 6-2 with a 1.57 goals-against average, .946 save percentage and two shutouts since being traded from Stouffville to Georgetown in the Ontario Junior Hockey League.

13. Merrick Rippon finally looks at home on the ice. The one-time Rangers draft pick refused to report to Kitchener and lasted half a season in Mississauga before being traded to Ottawa. He's averaging twice as many points per game with the 67's and has gone from minus-8 in Missy to plus-4 in the nation's capital.

14. Fifteen. That's the number of games Nick Suzuki, Jonah Gadjovich and Kevin Hancock have played together this season for Owen Sound. The high-flying trio hasn't dressed for the same game since Nov. 24. Think of that when you count the Attack out.

15. If Peterborough, currently tied for second-last in the east, wants to make the playoffs, the team is going to have to solve its slow starts. The Petes are 6-22-1-2 when tied or trailing after the first period. Comeback kings, they aren't.

16. Former Rangers forward Mason Kohn has ignited the Saginaw Spirit. Before he arrived (via a trade with Oshawa) the team was 4-8-2-0 and looked like a lock for last place in the west. Since joining the lineup, the Spirit is 19-9-2-0 and eyeing home ice advantage in the first round of the playoffs.

17. Sarnia is one of the clear winners at the trade deadline. The Sting ponied up to address some needs, and the moves — so far — are working out. Even more exciting is the fact that the Sting is 2-1-1-0 against the Soo and has outscored the 'Hounds 17-16 in the four-game regular season series.

18. Don't read much into the two-game losing "skid" for the Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds. Blip on the radar is how I'd sum it up. The 'Hounds are still the team to beat in the OHL and the favourite to win it all. The team has only lost eight times all season. As you were, Soo.

19. The post-trade shakedown in Sudbury seems to have stirred the Pilon brothers. Twins Drake and Darian have combined for 46 points this season but have about a quarter of them (6G, 7A) in the past five games.

20. One of Windsor's best trade deadline acquisitions didn't come in a swap. The Spits grabbed one-time Rangers import Cedric Schiemenz on re-entry waivers, and the German winger has five points in six games.

21. Some trades work, others don't. Here are three deadline acquisitions that have surprised: Mario Culina to Kitchener (5-0, 1.20 GAA), Matthew Struthers to North Bay (8 points in 9 games) and Cole Carter to Mississauga (7 points in 5 games).

jbrown@therecord.com

Twitter: @BrownRecord

Josh Brown
by Josh Brown
Josh Brown covers the OHL's Kitchener Rangers for the Waterloo Region Record.

Email: jbrown@therecord.com Twitter
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