trade deadline talk

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Re: trade deadline talk

Postby hockeyhockeyhockey on Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:38 pm

I'll close out my thoughts on this seasons trades, with a word, puzzling.

Do any of the incoming players represent a significant improvement over outgoing ?

Vertiy and Propp ? Why ?
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Re: trade deadline talk

Postby Pitou on Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:02 pm

Yes, puzzling. The least impressed I have been to date with the team in regards to trades for sure. There should be at least some discernible plan, even if not agreed with. I see no identifiable plan or direction this season. Bits and bites.
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Re: trade deadline talk

Postby attackisback on Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:08 pm

http://bayshorebroadcasting.ca/news_ite ... wsID=98787

Wednesday, January 10, 2018
Deadline Done
Owen Sound | by Fred Wallace

Interview with Attack General Manager Dale DeGray


3:02
/ 5:53




The Ontario Hockey League Trade Deadline expired at noon.

The Owen Sound Attack did not make a transaction with another OHL team on the final day of trading.

After the deadline passed, Fred Wallace spoke to Attack General Manager Dale DeGray about various aspects of the trading season, starting with a report out of Peterborough this morning that indicated the Attack were going " hard " to acquire Petes netminder Dylan Wells.
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Re: trade deadline talk

Postby stevey on Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:16 pm

Ok I missed the memo. Where did Verity go ?
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Re: trade deadline talk

Postby hockeyfan99 on Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:56 pm

Veirty (sp) was because they were dressing 2 D on F and that still left them with only 10 forwards. He was roster filler until the injured came back.

If you go back in time to all my posts I am normally very pro DeGray, and I wanted to sit back and wait until after the deadline to see how things turned out before commenting on the year as a whole. I am at this point extremely confused about how this all went down.

1. The goaltending situation reared it's ugly head almost immediately, and nothing was done to rectify it early on which created a big problem. At the end of the day, this was the glaring need and a package of 2nd's, or Struthers, etc. could have been used to acquire a goaltender. Ollie could be the answer, but it was so glaring early on that DeGray had to have been banking on McNiven or there is no excuse for how this worked out.

2. The Lyle trade, although he is a solid D, cost the team a lot in future assets for a D that is probably #5 on the depth chart.

3. Trading a package for an OA in McKenzie and not following it up with another impactful trade was a big mistake IMO.

4. The Sudbury trade has been a mitigated disaster, and only Lazer has the chance to make it respectable with a big last half of the season.

5. OS could have banked a massive amount of seconds and young players by dealing Suzuki, Durzi, Gadj, Phillips. London has re-tooled so well that it's painful to the eyes.


With a healthy roster, I am confident that we can give any team in the OHL a series, but I would have said that before the season and all the moves above. DD blew assets to give his team a less of a chance then it had at the start of the year. In Junior Hockey, that's the definition of doing a not very good job.
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Re: trade deadline talk

Postby Annan_Man on Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:23 pm

hockeyfan99 wrote:Veirty (sp) was because they were dressing 2 D on F and that still left them with only 10 forwards. He was roster filler until the injured came back.

If you go back in time to all my posts I am normally very pro DeGray, and I wanted to sit back and wait until after the deadline to see how things turned out before commenting on the year as a whole. I am at this point extremely confused about how this all went down.

1. The goaltending situation reared it's ugly head almost immediately, and nothing was done to rectify it early on which created a big problem. At the end of the day, this was the glaring need and a package of 2nd's, or Struthers, etc. could have been used to acquire a goaltender. Ollie could be the answer, but it was so glaring early on that DeGray had to have been banking on McNiven or there is no excuse for how this worked out.

2. The Lyle trade, although he is a solid D, cost the team a lot in future assets for a D that is probably #5 on the depth chart.

3. Trading a package for an OA in McKenzie and not following it up with another impactful trade was a big mistake IMO.

4. The Sudbury trade has been a mitigated disaster, and only Lazer has the chance to make it respectable with a big last half of the season.

5. OS could have banked a massive amount of seconds and young players by dealing Suzuki, Durzi, Gadj, Phillips. London has re-tooled so well that it's painful to the eyes.


With a healthy roster, I am confident that we can give any team in the OHL a series, but I would have said that before the season and all the moves above. DD blew assets to give his team a less of a chance then it had at the start of the year. In Junior Hockey, that's the definition of doing a not very good job.


Solid post. Can't argue with any of your points. I guess we now hang on for the ride.
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Re: trade deadline talk

Postby PensFan101 on Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:43 pm

Pitou wrote:I wasn't suggesting the OS teams specifically have been mediocre of late and perhaps I poorly articulated the general point I was trying to make, which was really more of a question than any point. I was pondering what is best for fan growth and fan satisfaction? There is no one size fits all answer. The flash and dash of extreme sell offs for draft picks/prospects and using the equity to re-build a championship team 3-4 year down the road, or a more tempered approached where you tend to get more consistency in team strength but definitely more difficult to compete with the upper echelon of those teams peaking on their "high" cycle who partiicpate in high priced sell offs and buying. The Attack have done well given their market, no doubt. But IMO, you need the season lows which produce an impact top 5 pick. Erie got where they were because of some key draft years picking high. Yes, McDavid was special, but the point remains the same. If you're always hovering in around a 12th to 16th 1st round pick, you are harder pressed landing that marquee player to build around.

All depends your preference as a fan. I'd prefer a more aggressive roller coaster ride than a merry-go-round myself. Unfortunately it's not my choice.


I think it's possible to win doing what the Attack have been doing. A more aggressive GM might have gone for it last year, and even then I'm not sure the group was ready to take out Erie who were so experienced.

As for your earlier post about the financial health of the team surviving a rebuild... The team survived the post-Bobby Ryan bottoming out quite well. Up and down years are part of the cycle for junior hockey and quite frankly we've been spoiled by the amount of success we've had since 2011 - we vastly outperform compared to our market size. Not that it should ever be used as an excuse for failure when we reach that standard (last year), then fail to meet it (this year).

Take a look around the rink and seemingly ever square inch is covered in an ad, we have presenting partners now, and ads during play with the video scoreboard. Lightyears ahead of where we were a decade ago at the start of DeGrey's tenure.

And in terms of attracing younger fans, well that's more of a city of Owen Sound issue than anything with the team. Unless you never left out of high school or have been educated in a classic profession (doctor, lawyer, accountant, nurse, trades, etc.), there's not a lot to bring you back here. As someone who is in that millenial demographic though, I know that we are starting to trickle back and more and more people are becoming disenchanted with big city promises. I think we'll see a big shift in the next five to ten years with the way real estate is going, and there will be more young families and skilled professionals coming to our neck of the woods. And they'll become Attack fans, since god knows there's not much else for entertainment and public mingling in this town.
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Re: trade deadline talk

Postby Digger on Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:19 pm

Attack use deadline to tweak not tank
Greg Cowan, Pincher Creek Echo
By Greg Cowan, Owen Sound Sun Times

Wednesday, January 10, 2018 4:15:16 EST PM


Over the past few weeks and days Owen Sound Attack General Manager Dale DeGray had offers for Nick Suzuki and Jonah Gadjovich - and discussions about adding a goalie - but the noon trade deadline passed on Wednesday without any further moves from the 11-year front-office veteran.

“I love it. It’s frustrating at times, that being said I can tell you it can also be incredibly rewarding,” DeGray said of the job at the deadline.

DeGray said he makes a point to always hear everybody out on offers, but never thought seriously about any big roster-shuffling move.

“You have to have a plan,” he said. “It’s when you don’t have a plan and fly by the seat of your pants, I just don’t know, I just can’t believe in doing that.”

DeGray’s plan took a hit when goaltender Olivier Lafreniere left Saturday’s game with an injury, just five days before the deadline.

“The only thing that made me blink a little bit,” said DeGray. “If he didn’t tweak his groin against Kitchener that thought process wouldn’t have even entered my head.”

The Attack’s director of public relations, Shaun Bisson, tallied 30 trades, 49 players moved, and 45 second-round picks switching hands in the Ontario Hockey League since December 1.

The biggest deals were Sault Ste. Marie moving prospect Hayden Fowler and nine draft picks to the Erie Otters for Taylor Raddysh and Jordan Sambrook while Kingston received Sean Day and Gabriel Vilardi from Windsor for Cody Morgan and eight picks.

One of those picks was Kingston’s second-round selection in 2028.

“Obviously everyone wants to get the most that they can get,” said DeGray of the deadline. “I just think when you trade a pick that’s 2028, I don’t know where that ends. I’ve been in the league 11 years, and that’s what I am afraid of. That bothers me.”

For perspective, the pick Kingston dealt to Windsor will eventually be used on a player most likely in Kindergarten and probably just learning how to skate.

“I could give someone five second round picks, and they could all be from 2025 to 2030,” said DeGray. “Well, does that make any sense?”

DeGray noted prices like the ones paid to Erie and Windsor could have been had for Attack stars this season, and in prior seasons, while he’s been at the helm in Owen Sound.

“A hundred per cent,” he said, noting in previous years players like Chris Bigras and Zach Nastasiuk were targets of other teams. “I probably could have got a fair amount for them, but there’s also something to be said about having a kid that you draft, and keeping them.”

This time of year a lot of teams organize themselves into either sellers or buyers. DeGray’s history as the general manager of the Attack, and his comments, suggest he doesn’t believe in an 11th hour roster overhaul.

“I think junior hockey is about drafting kids, trying to develop them, and if you can tweak at the deadline then you try to tweak at the deadline,” he said. “I have a hard time buying into reassembling your organization, and your team for the given year, in seven days.”

Now the Owen Sound Attack get back to the game played on the ice. They open up their northern road swing against the North Bay Battalion on Thursday. A homecoming for newly acquired Brett McKenzie and reunion with former Attack forward Matthew Struthers.

With Cade Robinson coming over from the Erie Otters, and Kevin Hancock and Chase Campbell soon returning from injury, coach Todd Gill and his assistants will finally have a full complement of players to pencil in the lineup.

A luxury they haven’t had in quite some time, and one DeGray thinks will still have the Attack in the conversation come playoff time in March.

“I really, really, like a healthy group from our 2017/18 roster,” said DeGray. “I think it’s going to be exciting.”
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Re: trade deadline talk

Postby CHL Watcher on Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:31 pm

I'm in agreement with Pitou and HHH on the ebb and flow and the fanbase.

One thing that hockey fans know....especially the ones who come out of the woodwork in certain years....is...where the future stars are playing. Media clues them in during televised sports news and pro hockey telecasts...newspapers...radio shows...etc. Those stars almost always come via a rebuild somewhere that builds momentum nobody can stop. The younger the audience the more they want some actual excitement....and the more they are likely to follow sports news closely...and yes, young phenoms do tend to cause excitement around the rink.

Also, this team...DD very much included...is expecting to pick off stars and vets from other teams during the season while never ever offering the same in return. This one way street is noticeable. When players are moved they are almost always 18 or under. That's a backward way of going at things most of the time....unless you're gunning for a championship....and it's a smart thing to be doing at the time. DD has clearly failed to grasp the right moments and tell them from the wrong moments. Just my opinion.

I think local hockey fans are well aware of the Attack and will come to the games through everything but the worst weather imaginable. There is always a difference between a good year and a bad one....and mediocrity will always bring something in between...more stable. Which one fades for fans over time? Which one clearly and noticeably grew the fanbase?
Last edited by CHL Watcher on Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: trade deadline talk

Postby Digger on Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:38 pm

See it can be done. end the stupidity of including mulitple draft picks.

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Re: trade deadline talk

Postby Pitou on Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:12 pm

I appreciate Dale sharing his candid thoughts but it has occurred to me he has slowly been doing the same thing he's lamenting but in shorter time frames and smaller pieces for lesser lights. Look at the Attack draft cupboard and prospects. Frittered away a small piece at a time. For what? Remind me. Raddysh I remember. Lyle not as much. Now look at Windsor and London's cupboard, who are less years removed from a championship than the Attack. Which strategy works? Perennial "tweaking" or build and re-build? They don't hang Congeniality Champion banners from arena rafters.
Last edited by Pitou on Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: trade deadline talk

Postby CHL Watcher on Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:14 pm

The picks years into the future aren't real. They're currency. The odds of any of them being in the same hands on draft day in the year they come due are almost nil. They're simply trading chips around.

The near term ones are real. They are used to draft a new build and/or tweak a champion.

The young prospects are real.

Vets are real.

Star players are real.

I think the fear of these future picks being used is over-rated. The trick is to not let it ever be a steady drain on your team. You have to sell for picks at some point. The only problem in this way of doing things will be with teams that don't have the guts to bring some back....but are quick to move them....and are still getting no results. There's a possible tipping point. Still, that could happen under almost any set of rules. Some GMs will have a hard time adapting to situations and could run dry only to see their best players age out or move on without returning a championship, a good run, or any futures.

So, I agree with you guys that don't like it....but it's still here and they have to go with the flow for the time being, I think.
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Re: trade deadline talk

Postby Digger on Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:05 pm

Picks past the 2nd rd may not play in the league, quite a few never make it. Even 2nd rd picks don't always make the team.

Having muliple 2nd and 3 rd picks can be used to aquire a proven player in a year where a team is going all in as the mind set of today, but after that they may never play.

Look back at some of the 2nd and 3rd rd picks from the Attack and you will may be surprised how many never play. That same thing happens with all teams not just the Attack.
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Re: trade deadline talk

Postby hockeyhockeyhockey on Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:31 pm

I think what folks may be trying to say is the picks being traded well into the future no longer represent players, or kids who are in kindergarten .
They have become currency to be redeemed at a later date, and represent different values.

There are some managers who have embraced this system of trading currency, and some who haven't embraced the change yet.
So yes, a 2nd round pick in 2028 doesn't mean a player now, it holds value. The team with the most value will have more chances to buy players when needed.
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Re: trade deadline talk

Postby CHL Watcher on Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:21 am

That's what I was trying to say.

They are a store of value that can only rise in value over time.

I believe with the team's drafting record picks usually work out pretty well when used to select kids. The trading record, this season at least, is not inspiring.

I still believe the Attack can make a run....but SSM looks a tad unstopable right now....so it may be a run like last year....or less.
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